General Help and Questions

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Hi Folks,

New user (day 1) trying to get some concepts down. I've stumbled upon OR after posting in a VRBO forum that I was planning to build a homegrown system with some of the OR features. For background, I own 2 ski resort condos in Colorado US and currently have them only listed on VRBO.

Some Questions:

1. If using OR with some premium features, what mgmt steps will remain in VRBO vs moving to OR?
- cc payment handling?
- initial booking?
- return of secdep?
- answering inquiry questions?

2. How thoroughly is VRBO connected to OR?
- only via OR intercepting/scraping emails (both sent/rcvd)?
- via API, so useful info such as guest email/phone is kept synched?

3. For previous guests (who were originally found by VRBO or AirBNB) ...
- Does OR provide a way to manage the guest as a 'lead prospect'?
- Should I want lead prospects to book followup visits ...
a) using OR only to avoid VRBO/AirBNB fees?
b) using VRBO/AirBNB so I get more reviews?

4. Should I assume that I'll get the vast majority of guests through the advertising of VRBO/etc?

There are many features I'm looking for that I believe OR will really help with, just wanting to get my head around how OR will play nicely with VRBO or other rental sites. Happy upcoming New Years y'all !!

Regarding Service Animals, the ADA exempts in certain situations, for example at a school with children having allergies, service animals can be banned. Or a zoo with animals that would react against the presence of a dog.

I have two properties that will be hypoallergenic and i ban service animals. It is not possible to clean a house top to bottom between someone with a service dog and then the next guests with deathly allergies to dogs. So this is what I am doing:

1) My contract makes it clear they are banned. I am assuming this will block many fake service animals. I also assume it will prevent some real service animals.
2) If someone shows up with an animal, I will grill the owners to ensure it is a real service animal. Essentially, you ask the two legal questions, and watch for behaviour that is wrong (jumping up, untrained, aggressive towards others, etc.)
3) If they make it through these hoops, I will just accept the service animal, thoroughly clean the rugs and hope the next people didn't book expecting dog dander free.
4) If they did, I will tell them I was forced to accept a dog against my policy, and I tried to clean as well as possible
5) My agreement states that we cannot guarantee a hypoallergenic place will be dog free, as we cannot guarantee someone did not sneak in a dog without out knowledge. It is a goal, not a guarantee.
6) If there is a complaint from an OTA, I will play dumb and show them the law and that my place is hypoallergenic and that I wasn't really aware of the OTA ban, I was just following the ADA guidance directly from their site.

if you string together enough low probability cases, I think it helps.

Actually, homeaway also requires allowing service dogs. https://help.homeaway.com/articles/What-is-HomeAway-s-service-animal-policy

The OTAs stupid threat without understanding either ADA law or reality.

[quote=Paul W]We saw that story here as well. The correct answer here - ignore it. The author of that article says the exact opposite, but he's wrong. Wringing your hands and paying attorneys is an utter waste of time and money.

There is no legal standing for ADA against VR's or VR websites and no judge would allow the case to continue. No ADA attorney would waste time actually filing a case. They're just mailing letters to see if they can get a quick reaction. This has been done against many other types of businesses and websites and failed. ADA trolling does work against actual store front/commercially-zoned businesses, but not against VR's (which are zoned residential) and never against websites.

This is also not true. It is a potential against any business website in this country. The place I work at is small, and they are working hard for the Section 508. There are many articles about the explosion of real lawsuits against companies with websites that aren't compliant. I am not talking about mass mailings threatening action, I am talking about in the courtrooms. They are expensive to defend and expensive to fix a website after the fact.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/company-websites-that-arent-ada-compliant-becoming-litigation-targets
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/01/06/ada-website-accessibility-lawsuits/id=91700/
https://www.mightycitizen.com/insights/articles/will-your-website-get-you-sued

I am not convinced this is true at all. For example a Bed and Breakfast, which is zoned residential, is only exempt for an owner occupied, single family dwelling with 5 or less rooms. This is very discussed on a bed and breakfast forum I follow. An airbnb renting out rooms, especially if owner not live there, is very subject to this.

Private entity. check
place of lodging. check.

https://www.ada.gov/lodblind.htm

"Your establishment is covered by the ADA as a place of public accommodation if it is a private entity and is a place of lodging (including inns, hotels, and motels), regardless of whether it is a for-profit or non-profit establishment. The ADA does not cover owner-occupied establishments renting five or fewer rooms."

Hi guys. Is there a way for us to enter codes for the customer to enter? For example... code:RETURN is assigned $xxx off. Code:PROMO is assigned %xx off. Etc. guest would fill the code we assign, at checkout.

Currently, I have it were THEY check Return customer. However, someone made the mistake of checking it off and gave himself a discount.

I still think there is an issue. I have AvailgenTA template set up as generic template and header/footer = none. comes up with no theming footer in a preview, BUT when set to blind email, to TA, it still shows theming footer which gets blocked by TA because eit has my website/email. . See inquiry ORI801995355. I

Hi, is the better practice to have separate GA tag for OR widget vs GA Tag for website itself, or use same one for both?

I am thinking if same one, then traffic to the site will be overstated (i.e one hit counted for the webpage itself and another for embedded widget on same page).
I was using separate ones, but then GA gives the warning on the main site that ecommerce is not receiving any transactions (as they flow through separate tag that is fro OR widget).
What is "best practice" if there is one?

It does not matter how you rent or the number of rentals you have. The only thing that matters is how the property is zoned. The VR company in question had 20-some properties as rentals, many of which are large and accommodate 15 or 20+ people. None of them are 2nd homes or "vacation" homes for the owner. It doesn't matter. The properties were built according to residential zoning/building requirements and therefore do not apply. There is an ADA office at the DoJ that will tell you this directly.

Service animals fall under ADA and are also not required by VRs for the same reason - we asked about that specifically.

But again, if Airbnb or the channel hears about it, they could ban you so you have to think about the advertising side of it. But legally, you're fine. At the time, a person at VRBO said that they would only enforce what was "legal" but VRBO tends to change with whoever is manning the CSR desk at the time.

Thank you for such detailed update. I do not freak out easily but these days, everyone is sue-happy as you know. And I was like OMG, my site is NOT compliant.

Interesting take on ADA /service dogs. I think the consensus in the forums (esp Say No) is that you MUST take a true service dog.
Mine are no pet properties (even though I love pets, used to have 2 dogs and 2 cats, now 3 cats). I have not (yet) had a true SA request, they all turned out to be just fishing expeditions by people trying to bring their pet. Easily filtered out by asking 2 questions.. or someone saying that they will "crate" their SA.. Since true SA must accompany their owner at all times, "crating" was a dead giveaway.
I was little unclear on ADA/ SA because I thought it does not apply if you do not rent "commercially". I have 3 VRs and it would be hard to explain that they are my only 2nd home etc.

Someone else asked about this and I posted a message about this:

https://www.ownerrez.com/forums/general-help/new-website-scam

Summary: ADA, 508 and WCAG don't apply. Don't waste calories on it. Ignore the trolls; they have no legal standing to actually file. Read my response on the above thread.

We saw that story here as well. The correct answer here - ignore it. The author of that article says the exact opposite, but he's wrong. Wringing your hands and paying attorneys is an utter waste of time and money.

There is no legal standing for ADA against VR's or VR websites and no judge would allow the case to continue. No ADA attorney would waste time actually filing a case. They're just mailing letters to see if they can get a quick reaction. This has been done against many other types of businesses and websites and failed. ADA trolling does work against actual store front/commercially-zoned businesses, but not against VR's (which are zoned residential) and never against websites.

There is no legal requirements for ADA against any type of website (no matter the type of business) and ADA does not apply to vacation rental properties anyway if they are zoned as residential homes (which virtually all of them are).

We actually looked into this a few years ago and contacted the Department of Justice (the ADA office) directly. The told us that vacation rentals do not apply to ADA and are not subject to any ADA requirements. This was after a user got into a fight with a guest over whether they had to accommodate a service animal when no pets were allowed. The DoJ told us directly that the service animal did not have to be allowed because ADA does not apply. Even if you are running the residence "as a business", ADA still does not apply because the property is not zoned as commercial property.

508 compliance also does not apply to our app, websites or any of our users' websites. Section 508 only applies to federal government websites and, in a limited sense, to federal contractors who do work for the government. There is zero reason to worry about 508.

The author is also wrong in stating that "users would love for their website to be compliant". No you wouldn't. Having been involved in the technical aspects of 508 compliance in the past, I can tell you that it creates terrible websites and leads to wooden/brittle functionality. In order to fully pass all screen-reader tests, web pages have to be changed substantially and most modern functionality removed. You get old-feeling clunky buttons and grids where every action you take leads to a full page redirect. Quickly sorting or scrolling calendars/grids would all have to go away.

But what WCAG 2.0? Again, no legal requirement whatsoever. It's nothing but a technical spec from the W3C about some best case practices if you're so inclined. It's primarily used by government entities (who are required to be 508 compliant) to help them get to 508 in a clean way. The "settlements" over WCAG that the author mentions are just that - government entities/apps that had to comply and ended up agreeing to WCAG specs to make the dispute go away.

Ignore the ADA trolls. They will not spend the money to actually file a case because there's no legal standing for them to move forward on.

Or if you want to have some fun, maybe send them this: https://www.ruindays.com

PS. A quick note on not allowing service animals. While that is 100% true - you can stop them and the ADA office will back you up on that - there are major channels that force users to accept them as a matter of the channel ToS. Airbnb is the big offender here (shocker!). Airbnb does not care if ADA applies; they will still fine/punish/ban you from their channel if you don't allow service animals. So watch your back on that. Just because you have the legal standing doesn't mean the channel won't give you crap about it.

Someone in "Say No to Vrbo" group received papers.

https://www.mikedubose.com/posts/the_dangerous_new_legal_scam_targeting_your_website

The way to do this is to create a custom page, and then set "Hide Tab" under the options at the bottom. That way you can put some content on there, but it won't show on the tabs at the top.

Then go into the site settings, edit the footer, and add a link to it. If you don't know HTML, let me know and I can add the link for you.

We don't have a stub for a privacy notice, but if you google it up there are tons.

The instructions article is over here: https://www.ownerrez.com/support/articles/hosted-websites. The sites are fairly simple and that doesn't get into a whole lot of depth, so let us know when you have questions.

Hi. I am looking at my minimally set up hosted website.

Is there a way to add a Privacy Notice to this? There is none on the dropdowns or the bottom. Granted, I did not spend much time on this yet, but not grasp how to add that "bottom" of the site stuff such as Privacy Notice, Terms & Conditions, etc.

Do you have a stub for a VR privacy notice? Although I expect few Europeans, the GDPR does cause one to sit up and take notice. As if California wasn't enough

Is there an instruction page for setting up the hosted web page? I went to the Settings > Hosted Website, but it is kind of barebones

We make the sites as standards compliant as we can, and we're always improving -- accessibility is never a once and done sort of process. If you see something that doesn't work in a screenreader, let us know!

Your article was mostly describing text content on the site, though -- best way to handle that is to put a disclaimer in the footer or on separate page.

This is rapidly becoming a gigantic issue for web-based functions.

Are the OR hosted websites compliant with ADA: section 508, WCAG 2.0 ?

This was a piece of a posting on a bed-and-breakfast site I follow:
http://www.innspiring.com/node/19543

Only ID of the primary guest who is signing the rental agreement and paying.

Personally, I don't ask for ID on every booking, just if it seem scammish or otherwise high risk. Anybody else on the forums want to pile on with some advice?

I think it's overkill to ask for ID's from every guest. There's an argument to be made that it's reasonable to ask for the ID from the responsible/paying guest because of fraud/chargeback issues, but personally if I was booking and somebody tried to get an ID for all of the people I was bringing, I wouldn't go for it.

Yep, individual properties is the best way to do it. You can set up calendar imports for mutual blockoff so that when the main properties is booked the individual unit properties are blocked off and vice versa. Here's instructions for that: https://www.ownerrez.com/support/articles/combined-properties-blockoff-lockoff

For OTA's that'll work too -- most don't support the concept of a combination property, but they all support 3 individual properties. Since OwnerRez has the master calendar and is managing that mutual blockoff, you can just integrate with OTA's on 3 listings like they were 3 normal properties and OwnerRez will do the rest.

Our property calendar only goes down to the night, and there's a lot of stuff built round that. If you're doing multiple intraday bookings, you'd need to use a different method. If you are only doing one booking per day (but some are shorter than others), then you could make it work, but if you need to have two bookings on the same day it won't work unless you make multiple properties to hold simultaneous bookings and manage all of the calendars manually, and that's a lot of work.

We do have add-on options for bookings: https://www.ownerrez.com/blog/add-ons-are-here--also-known-as-optional-surcharges. If it's adding on to another booking, you could do the event space that way, as an add-on, and then keep track in a separate calendar so you don't double book it.

Booking.com recently introduced a bug on their iCal where they don't support secure (https) iCal links.

Change the beginning of the iCal URL to http:// instead of https:// and it'll get round that issue.

Hey, were you able to fix the issue? I am having the same issue too.

Many VR owners require a government picture ID for each adult in the booking party. (Again, I have not started yet.)

But hotels do not seem to do this. And I have units that hold up to 8

Question: Is it overkill to expect a picture from each Adult, just from the responsible/paying guest(s)?

What do you do?

Reminding that I have not started actual VR rental yet, likely March or April...

In the Licensing Agreement, I have this Property Address field definition: {PADDRS} I have not tried to figure out how this pulls in yet but assume it comes from the Description:

Anyway, I have:

...A Property with 5 apartments, each is independent VR. Lets say Units 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

SO: I assume best/easiest to include the Unit in the Property Address such as: Unit #1, 100 Main Street, Anywhere, USA 12345???

...A Property that is two town homes, can be be rented separately or together. Lets say addresses 100 Main Street and 102 Main Street.

SO: I assume best/easiest is to code this as 3 properties: 100 Main Street, 102 Main Street, and 100-102 Main Street?

But not sure this would work with OTAs...?

The building I bought a couple months ago (the former bowling alley in town) has an empty space that used to be a 1000sf karate studio. It dawned on me yesterday, that it would be a great small "Event Center." The kind of thing some vacation renters try to use your VR for, sometimes without your knowledge. film shoot, wedding, party, etc.

The questions are:
1) I would like it to be bookable by the Hour/MultiHour/Half Day/Day --> is this possible to do this as an "Event Center" with current functionality?
2) Events often add-on options such as catered / musician / photography service / etc. --> it is ok if is is simple description, but how would this be associated with the Event Center?

Hi everyone, 👋

In a large update, just pushed out this morning, we added the ability to do more widget things. You can now:

- make property links open in new tabs
- target the legend for CSS (eg. make the "Today" and "Holiday" text thing disappear or change)
- add a name to easily identify which widget is which

Have a great holiday season! 🎄

Absolutely, as long as they are in smoky mountains and have their URL properly set up. I have one "offender" who's URL lands on come odd page when his "detail" button is clicked. I think Sharafunnisa wanted to join in ORP185006.

I also ended up embedding page code into my website page. I guess my website builder tool is quirky in a sense that html embeds do not resize based on how many cabins are in the result list of availability search. I kinda got around it but my business name, logo and my website/ phone (theming) displays on widget .. I am thinking guests will start contacting me about other's cabins. See here and you will see what I am talking about :-) https://smoky-mountains-cabin.com/rentals-by-owner

Good ideas on the open in new window and hide legend option. Will add those to the dev list.

@BlueMtn, cool if I add those additional properties to your widget? Any additional to add?

Thanks for adding this feature Chris Hynes! Would you be kind to add property IDs 185006 and 210365 to this as wel? Thanks